My feeling is also that the low oil was no the problem, there was no oil light showing so if the car has one, which I figure it does, it should have shown if the level was seriously low. Possibly the tensioner failed? causing the chain to jump cogs. Peter

No more cars left, Westpaminis is now just a memory, Good luck to all those hard working dealers left out there, We can tell you its not easy. We have fully enjoyed meeting all the fine folks we have in the business.

I find it hard to believe that the oil that low would cause the engine to be trash. I had run my CRX low on oil several times, and kept it running past 200k miles. I would look into the timing belt. (Yes the engine is an interference type). Something else is the problem, and a whole engine will fix it. So will another car.

Mark Looman, Ada Michigan 1967 Austin Cooper S

Futher update, Honda now says 500 quid plus VAT to remove head to inspect. OR 7500 quid plus 1000 quid plus VAT for new engine (recommended)

My buddy is not going either route and is taking it to a local mechanic who is pulling the head for 40! quid.

Once they determine engine is toast he is going to buy an engine off ebay, (1500-2500) for low mile complete examples and go that route.

I still feel I would have reset the timing chain and flushed the old oil out and put in new and given it a go. Car still ran and drove but was missing badly and down on power.

He knows nothing of engines and is trying to do this w/o losing his shirt. I am trying to direct him in the best possible direction.

thanks. Peter

No more cars left, Westpaminis is now just a memory, Good luck to all those hard working dealers left out there, We can tell you its not easy. We have fully enjoyed meeting all the fine folks we have in the business.

That is the types of responses I was looking for, I was questioning how they can say "needs new engine" but to be sure we can pull the head for 400 quid and check, Why check if you are telling me it needs a new engine?

Thanks folks. I will let you know how this ends up.

Peter

No more cars left, Westpaminis is now just a memory, Good luck to all those hard working dealers left out there, We can tell you its not easy. We have fully enjoyed meeting all the fine folks we have in the business.

First off a dealership is a joke,all they want is money and the easy route. Sounds like it jumped time if it just a tooth or so it should be allright. Did he see the oil first hand or is that what they have told him?? he can also do the work himself cheep if it needs redone. Also the tentioner is hydro but dont run off oil pressure its a seal unit.

Dont buy a Honda buy something better.........   (Honda);">

 

People are like slinkeys; they dont really serve a purpose but you cant help laughing when one falls down the stairs.

Running the oil level to the bottom of the dipstick is a bit low, a little more than 2 quarts low.  That is enough to deactivate the VTEC engagement but I would doubt it is enough to kill the engine. 

Prez, Mini Owners of America, Los Angeles

Thanks folks, As I mentioned the car was run for some time on low oil, I believe the chain has missed more than a few cogs and this is why there is particulate material in the oil, probably if there is metal bits in the oil the bearings and other close tolerance parts damaged. He is not going to jump right in and spend big bucks (as he can't afford it) I appreciate any advise given.

many thanks. Peter

No more cars left, Westpaminis is now just a memory, Good luck to all those hard working dealers left out there, We can tell you its not easy. We have fully enjoyed meeting all the fine folks we have in the business.

Sounds like the same thing that happened to my wife's 2000 Si just a few months ago.  Just started it up one morning, and it felt like it was missing (as you described), and when you gassed it it would either die, or stutter, just having a rough go at moving in general.  Now, the car has 150K on it (and it's still going strong), so I took it into the dealer, and they said it was just badly in need of a tune-up, including plugs, wires, etc, etc.  I had them change the timing belt/water pump while they were in there as well, and the car has been running beautifully ever since.  The whole job cost around $1200US, with the timing belt operation really being the bulk of the job, and probably unneccessary in your case with such low mileage.  I think the deluxe tune-up portion was around $400.  I just can't see a 60K Honda of any sort, under most conditions, needing a new motor.  They are more reliable than the universe.   

As a side note, have you tried to diagnose the car using the ECU and a bent paperclip?  It's not a joke, do a Google search, you can basically short out two connectors in the ECU, turn the ignition switch, and a light in your dash will flash at a certain interval if there is a particular problem.  The code, given the appropriate chart (again online), will tell you what the issue might be.  Good luck man.

It sounds to me like the dealer doesn't know what's wrong with the engine. 

Most of the Honda motors I've played with are interference type set-ups.  Though one cog off on the gear shouldn't be enough to have metal hit metal. 

 

Prez, Mini Owners of America, Los Angeles

My buddy has a 60k mile Civic Type R, year is 2002? or so. He ran it low on oil!!!! (no light came on, he just checked and it was just touching the tip of the dipstick). He added oil and a short time later the car started acting like it was missing, Would only go up in 10mph increments between shifts, stalled at every light and intersection and had no power. Would rev but sound a bit sickly. He took it to his mechanic who changed the cam position sensor and a few other bits and bobs and decided it needed to go to honda. As my buddy is in Turkey at the moment he had me stay in touch with Honda. Honda called and said it needed a new engine, Said because the oil was black and filled with particles that this showed it needed a new engine. They said they could remove the head and confirm. (would cost about 400 quid to do this) I asked the question "why if you needed to remove the head to make sure it needed a new engine how could you currently say that it needs a new engine with the head installed?" She just repeated the fact that there was particulate matter in the oil and the oils blackness was proof and somehow she knew the car had been run low on oil, She said the timing chain had jumped teeth. I believe the chain tensioner is hyrdrolic and thus the low oil situation caused it to release the chain and cause the problem.

Now I know that particles in the oil are not good and jumping a timing cog is even worse but I don't believe it is an interference engine, so what would changing the chain and cog and putting in new oil do? could that return the engine to serviceability? I guess if it was my car I would try the cheap fix just mentioned and see what happens

Just looking for suggestions here. A new engine is 7500 quid plus install and he can't go that route (I have suggested a used low mile unit that runs about 2500 quid on ebay)

Thoughts from the guys that mess with hondas?

Cheers. peter

No more cars left, Westpaminis is now just a memory, Good luck to all those hard working dealers left out there, We can tell you its not easy. We have fully enjoyed meeting all the fine folks we have in the business.